E85

[clubgitmo]

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Ive never considered it due to the drop in fuel economy, but now that gas is going up again it may be cost effective to do so... I just need to find out what the stuff is going for around here. The only station that sells it is a tad out of my way.


As a bonus, my engine is rated for around 10 more HP on corn

Anyone here run corn in their vehicles?

[howam00]

not me althoguh it is available. way worse mileage and the actual production of it uses more fuel than is gotten out of it. Bad for the environment (even considering the improved emissions of my car), bad for agriculture, costs too much (requires heavy subsidies on an industry that already has rediculus subisdies) etc.

there are better, sustainable fuels out there than ethanol in general and certainly from corn of all things.

I am still big on biodiesel (alge based or other non-food sources) since they are already proven to get more fuel out of production that is put in to grow the crops and that number is increasing with better techniques and the actual fuel produced has a much higher energy density (ie better mileage for the same volume of fuel). the ethanol might be better on emissions but even the cellulosic ethanol is not cost effective and doesn't produce near the volume per acre that biodiesel can and it takes about twice as much to go the same distance. CNG has a similar problem although not as bad as ethanol and the only way for use to produce CNG outside of nature sources (just like oil) is to use coal and other highly damaging sources (not even remotely close to carbon neutral)

[clubgitmo]

Ran through three tanks. Averaged around 15mpg per tank. Or, 20-25% or so FE drop (lots of city driving lately) for fuel that was... 10-13% cheaper I believe. I enjoyed the extra power, but eeking out barely over 200miles in a tank is plain dumb.


And you're right Howam. Obama wants 15% of all fuels to be corn... Which is ridiculous.

As you said, farmers are already being paid by the government to grow corn. The subsidies are ridiculous. This is not a viable step towards energy independence, and the only ones that believe that it is are the ag lobbyists that are in bed with the government. All ethanol production is doing is helping the large farm corporations, costing taxpayers money, and driving up food prices.

(on a side note, corn subsidies are also making us fat. Genetically engineered corn prodcuts are now in EVERYTHING we eat... and it's not good for us. Mrs Obama - Want to make America skinny? Tell your husband to end corn subsidies... PLEASE!)

Anyhow - Im going back to only buying fuel from ETHANOL free gas stations... Which are becoming quite rare.

[Bugman]

Originally Posted by clubgitmo

Ran through three tanks. Averaged around 15mpg per tank. Or, 20-25% or so FE drop (lots of city driving lately) for fuel that was... 10-13% cheaper I believe. I enjoyed the extra power, but eeking out barely over 200miles in a tank is plain dumb.


And you're right Howam. Obama wants 15% of all fuels to be corn... Which is ridiculous.

As you said, farmers are already being paid by the government to grow corn. The subsidies are ridiculous. This is not a viable step towards energy independence, and the only ones that believe that it is are the ag lobbyists that are in bed with the government. All ethanol production is doing is helping the large farm corporations, costing taxpayers money, and driving up food prices.

(on a side note, corn subsidies are also making us fat. Genetically engineered corn prodcuts are now in EVERYTHING we eat... and it's not good for us. Mrs Obama - Want to make America skinny? Tell your husband to end corn subsidies... PLEASE!)

Anyhow - Im going back to only buying fuel from ETHANOL free gas stations... Which are becoming quite rare.

I think the gov. is actually subsidizing farmers to NOT grow corn, keeping the price up. Corn syrup is in everything and is far worse for you than sugar cane. It can turn you into a diabetic twice as fast.

[clubgitmo]

I think the gov. is actually subsidizing farmers to NOT grow corn, keeping the price up.

Yes and no. Once again proving that our government works for the lobbyists and not the welfare of the people, the farming subsidy policies have grown so big and complicated that the government is actually paying people TO grow corn while paying others NOT to crown corn (well, crops in general) at the SAME time.

Owners of approx 34million acres across the country get checks to not grow crops on these lands. Meanwhile, growers of corn get direct per acre payments as well subsidized insurance.... to the total tune of $4.5B last year.



I'd like to take this moment to thank FDR for getting the ball rolling on this. What massive amounts of destruction you were able to do in your short 13 year tour. Cheers buddy

[howam00]

Originally Posted by Bugman

I think the gov. is actually subsidizing farmers to NOT grow corn, keeping the price up. Corn syrup is in everything and is far worse for you than sugar cane. It can turn you into a diabetic twice as fast.

depending on the area both are true. I did just look up 2009 numbers (2010 not out yet) and its was $15,580,256,602 in total ag subsidies with just a hair under $4 billion for corn alone.

I know that $16 billion is a drop in the overall bucket but the stuff isn't good for us to begin with, causes food prices to fluctuate greatly (main cause for starvation in Africa despite the massive oversupply of food), is a terrible fuel source and has big time effects on long term healthcare (diabities, obesity related diseases, etc) and massive reduction in bio-diversity (meaning there is only one kind of food corn grown and Monsanto owns the rights, if a disease or bug hits it will wipe out all crops)

to just take all the subsidies away would probably really jolt the economy again so it will probably take a few years to phase out but it should be done.

Sorry to rant and rave but corn based anything other than corn is not really a good idea either economically or health wise and I personally think Monsanto is one of the most evil companies in the world. They have been allowed to patent life and are screwing over anyone who gets in their way. (all over the world)

[howam00]

Originally Posted by clubgitmo

Yes and no. Once again proving that our government works for the lobbyists and not the welfare of the people, the farming subsidy policies have grown so big and complicated that the government is actually paying people TO grow corn while paying others NOT to crown corn (well, crops in general) at the SAME time.

Owners of approx 34million acres across the country get checks to not grow crops on these lands. Meanwhile, growers of corn get direct per acre payments as well subsidized insurance.... to the total tune of $4.5B last year.



I'd like to take this moment to thank FDR for getting the ball rolling on this. What massive amounts of destruction you were able to do in your short 13 year tour. Cheers buddy

there are some other "indirect subsidies" that some estimate total around $180 billion (again includes some indrect monies for supporting systems)

It looks like the majority of the inital subsidies started in 1922 in response to the dust bowl and great depression (well before FDR) The first true "farm bills" started in 1965 under Lyndon Johnson and in 1973 the first true shift in ag policy towards over production to ensure security (against the Soviets) was under Nixon

the last farm bill was signed into law in 2008 under Bush as was the bill's predicessor in 2002. It will come up again in 2013 under whoever is newly elected president

[clubgitmo]

FDR is considered by many as the father of the modern farm subsidy framework. Of course, it was only a small part of the crap he pushed through under the New Deal that is still hanging over our heads.