Not Your Grandpa's Diesel

[clubgitmo]

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Let me preface this rant by saying that I love my earth. I love spending my time outside. I love scuba diving it, I love running it, cycling it, swimming it, etc. While many, many auto enthusiasts bash the EPA for every piece of emissions equipment on their vehicle, I do recognize the need for clean air. I own an early 70's vehicle with practically no emissions 'crap' and if all vehicles were still built that way, we probably wouldn't be able to breath. However, there is a line that can be crossed when it comes to maintaining clean air, and the EPA has crossed it. It is my opinion that the newest round of diesel regulations (which are based on diesel stereotypes and 'man made climate change' pseudo science) have effectively killed off the diesel engine as we know it.

It's been said that it takes a lot to make a gas engine run, but a lot to keep a diesel engine from running. That, my friends, is no longer true. The days of simple, reliable engines that could last forever and achieve remarkable fuel economy numbers are over. New engines have to be so complex to pass emissions, that we are already seeing reliability concerns across all brands. To make matters worse, it's become increasingly harder for the average joe to fix his own vehicle w/o the assistance of the dealership. The diesel engine, which could have been one of the biggest tools in getting America off foreign oil, is dying a slow death. The EPA has cut our nose off to spite face.

After hearing so much about reliability issues across the board in 2010 emission compliant diesels, I find it harder and harder to (A) see Mahindra every making it across the pond and (B) find myself buying a Mahindra, or any other new diesel until reliability concerns can be fixed. If they can be fixed, that is.

And, Im not the only one that feels this way. The car companies see diesels in America as a dying breed as well. Similarly, they blame the new emissions standards, as well as the high cost of ultra low sulfer diesel fuel... Which is no longer cheaper and easier to produce that gasoline.

Diesel Technology, Sundown So Soon - Diesel vs Hybrids - Automobile Magazine

So, I want to give a big thanks to the government for killing the diesel. As usual, my hard earned tax dollars are being well spent.

Anyhow, the new Ford 'ecoboost', turbo engines are intriguing. Unfortunately, at the moment, Ford is screwing them up as well. If they ever decide to make a 4 cylinder version with a turbo to achieved good fuel economy in a small car/truck, I think they'll have a winner. As it stands now, they seem to only be making V6'ers that will compete with the V8's but with better fuel economy. I think they can do better/smaller.

[Bugman]

Where is the like button,,.. Volkswagen Beetle News: 2012 VW New Beetle Renderings ? Car and Driver

[Ninkasi]

I totally agree. However, I could be wrong but I think that CARB is more of a problem than the EPA. I thought the EPA standards for diesel were similar to those of Europe but CARB'S are much stricter (possibly the strictest in the world). Because the 13 or so states (which unfortunately includes mine - Pennsylvania) that have enacted the CARB emissions rules contain about 50% of population, diesels sold here that met EPA regulations but not CARB would have little chance of competing well in the market since 50% of the population would not even be allowed to buy them. Therefore, no car manufactures will sell such vehicles here.

I remember reading about a case that may have actually made it to the Supreme Court where the right of states to set their own emissions standards was being challenged. I am not sure whether it is constitutional to prohibit states from doing this. If CARB was rendered illegal and thrown out then we might see more diesels here that simply had to meet the EPA standards.

[jriosa]

Originally Posted by clubgitmo

Anyhow, the new Ford 'ecoboost', turbo engines are intriguing. Unfortunately, at the moment, Ford is screwing them up as well. If they ever decide to make a 4 cylinder version with a turbo to achieved good fuel economy in a small car/truck, I think they'll have a winner. As it stands now, they seem to only be making V6'ers that will compete with the V8's but with better fuel economy. I think they can do better/smaller.

Umm - yeah - they are going smaller - Explorer will be released next year with an 1-4 ecoboost (2.0l) They are already released in Europe with down to a 1.6l in things like the c-MAX and Focus. Give it a bit of time and you will see them over here.

Only problem I see with the Ecoboost is they are being up-marketed - you have to go to higher trim/option levels to even get one. Would be nice to see it in a basic stripper vehicle.

Now if only they would commit to a Ranger-esque p/u with an I-4 Ecoboost.

Jim

[hsfbfan]

Ecoboost engine is available in F150 in all trim levels except regular cab short bed.

[gnorthern]

I have to agree about CARB being a problem. I do not fully understand this, but it seems essentially diesels are being held to a higher standard than gas engines which is non-sense.

I am still not that thrilled about EcoBoost engines. From what I read you are not really getting the power 8 cylinder in a 6 cylinder, but something in-between.

And lets not forget GM. I drove a Colorado on a forest fire for two weeks, pushed it to it's limits, and got a high quality ride and great gas mileage (24mpg combination highway and heavy duty 4 wheel drive.)

[howam00]

Originally Posted by gnorthern

I have to agree about CARB being a problem. I do not fully understand this, but it seems essentially diesels are being held to a higher standard than gas engines which is non-sense.

I am still not that thrilled about EcoBoost engines. From what I read you are not really getting the power 8 cylinder in a 6 cylinder, but something in-between.

And lets not forget GM. I drove a Colorado on a forest fire for two weeks, pushed it to it's limits, and got a high quality ride and great gas mileage (24mpg combination highway and heavy duty 4 wheel drive.)

1. with CARB diesels are now held to the SAME standard as gasoline engines, not more

2. the Eco-boost and all current gen boosted engines are as powerful as their bigger brothers (the 3.5TT has more horsepower and more torque over a broader curve than the new 5.0), will it save the owner in fuel costs is a legit question. I guess the answer on that one is, it depends

3. The colorado/canyon twins are supposed to be terrible rides with iffy build quality compared to their bigger brothers and/or peers. of course compared to a 5-10 year old vehicle even those two would seem better than an old rig.

I hope GM goes back to more of an S-10 sized truck as that product seemed to work well for them

[gnorthern]

Originally Posted by howam00

1. with CARB diesels are now held to the SAME standard as gasoline engines, not more
...
I hope GM goes back to more of an S-10 sized truck as that product seemed to work well for them

I can't argue with CARB then. And I have to agree with the S-10. I sold an S-10 I had been driving for 16 years, and I always thought it was always the perfect size truck for my uses. I only sold it since I bought a little station wagon for my daughter who then decided she did not want to learn to drive. I had to sell one vehicle, and in hind sight I sold the wrong one. T

I was totally brain dead when questioning the power of the new engines. Too much Christmas sugar (OK not really, just brain dead). I was thinking mpg, and it sounds like we agree that may be oversold.

[Bugman]

Originally Posted by jriosa

Umm - yeah - they are going smaller - Explorer will be released next year with an 1-4 ecoboost (2.0l) They are already released in Europe with down to a 1.6l in things like the c-MAX and Focus. Give it a bit of time and you will see them over here.

Only problem I see with the Ecoboost is they are being up-marketed - you have to go to higher trim/option levels to even get one. Would be nice to see it in a basic stripper vehicle.

Now if only they would commit to a Ranger-esque p/u with an I-4 Ecoboost.

Jim

Thank you for backing me up on this. Everything I've read and the salesman says you will have to get the Eco Boost in a "package" at around 5 grand extra..

[howam00]

I bet there is a way to get just the motor upgrade but the dealers are likely to order in only those packaged with more stuff for the increased margins.